Man its kind of sad that this is the current era of mountain biking tech and innovation. Colors, small measurements, and the same tread pattern repeated on tires. I miss the 2012-2017 era. Where enduro was just beginning and 29ers on big bikes were becoming a thing. Pros doing sometimes absurd builds… oh and cheaper bikes. Good times.
Man its kind of sad that this is the current era of mountain biking tech and innovation. Colors, small measurements, and the same tread pattern repeated...
Man its kind of sad that this is the current era of mountain biking tech and innovation. Colors, small measurements, and the same tread pattern repeated on tires. I miss the 2012-2017 era. Where enduro was just beginning and 29ers on big bikes were becoming a thing. Pros doing sometimes absurd builds… oh and cheaper bikes. Good times.
Couldn't agree more. In 2014 I bought into the hype and sold my 26" for an Enduro 29er, only for it to have a 67.5 degree HTA and ride like an XC bike on the downhill. I OTB'ed for the first month more than the previous 3 years until I adjusted my technique.
Fast forward a few years, and by 2019 it was hard to buy a bike that had crap geo, and now all bikes have the same geo haha. All suspension is pretty good, all brakes are pretty good, and all high end builds are neon-pastel frame colors so everyone can see from a helicopter how much you spent on your bike.
I feel like the next innovations aren't going to be in performance, per-se, but rather in manufacturing techniques (still mourning that GG bit the dust)
Man its kind of sad that this is the current era of mountain biking tech and innovation. Colors, small measurements, and the same tread pattern repeated...
Man its kind of sad that this is the current era of mountain biking tech and innovation. Colors, small measurements, and the same tread pattern repeated on tires. I miss the 2012-2017 era. Where enduro was just beginning and 29ers on big bikes were becoming a thing. Pros doing sometimes absurd builds… oh and cheaper bikes. Good times.
Couldn't agree more. In 2014 I bought into the hype and sold my 26" for an Enduro 29er, only for it to have a 67.5 degree...
Couldn't agree more. In 2014 I bought into the hype and sold my 26" for an Enduro 29er, only for it to have a 67.5 degree HTA and ride like an XC bike on the downhill. I OTB'ed for the first month more than the previous 3 years until I adjusted my technique.
Fast forward a few years, and by 2019 it was hard to buy a bike that had crap geo, and now all bikes have the same geo haha. All suspension is pretty good, all brakes are pretty good, and all high end builds are neon-pastel frame colors so everyone can see from a helicopter how much you spent on your bike.
I feel like the next innovations aren't going to be in performance, per-se, but rather in manufacturing techniques (still mourning that GG bit the dust)
Would be nice to see the potential of carbon (lighter weights, engineered flex etc.) materialize; 32lbs for a trail bike is not the future we were promised...
Man its kind of sad that this is the current era of mountain biking tech and innovation. Colors, small measurements, and the same tread pattern repeated...
Man its kind of sad that this is the current era of mountain biking tech and innovation. Colors, small measurements, and the same tread pattern repeated on tires. I miss the 2012-2017 era. Where enduro was just beginning and 29ers on big bikes were becoming a thing. Pros doing sometimes absurd builds… oh and cheaper bikes. Good times.
Couldn't agree more. In 2014 I bought into the hype and sold my 26" for an Enduro 29er, only for it to have a 67.5 degree...
Couldn't agree more. In 2014 I bought into the hype and sold my 26" for an Enduro 29er, only for it to have a 67.5 degree HTA and ride like an XC bike on the downhill. I OTB'ed for the first month more than the previous 3 years until I adjusted my technique.
Fast forward a few years, and by 2019 it was hard to buy a bike that had crap geo, and now all bikes have the same geo haha. All suspension is pretty good, all brakes are pretty good, and all high end builds are neon-pastel frame colors so everyone can see from a helicopter how much you spent on your bike.
I feel like the next innovations aren't going to be in performance, per-se, but rather in manufacturing techniques (still mourning that GG bit the dust)
Would be nice to see the potential of carbon (lighter weights, engineered flex etc.) materialize; 32lbs for a trail bike is not the future we were...
Would be nice to see the potential of carbon (lighter weights, engineered flex etc.) materialize; 32lbs for a trail bike is not the future we were promised...
Band do it too much. Enough with the “flex pivot” bs.
Couldn't agree more. In 2014 I bought into the hype and sold my 26" for an Enduro 29er, only for it to have a 67.5 degree...
Couldn't agree more. In 2014 I bought into the hype and sold my 26" for an Enduro 29er, only for it to have a 67.5 degree HTA and ride like an XC bike on the downhill. I OTB'ed for the first month more than the previous 3 years until I adjusted my technique.
Fast forward a few years, and by 2019 it was hard to buy a bike that had crap geo, and now all bikes have the same geo haha. All suspension is pretty good, all brakes are pretty good, and all high end builds are neon-pastel frame colors so everyone can see from a helicopter how much you spent on your bike.
I feel like the next innovations aren't going to be in performance, per-se, but rather in manufacturing techniques (still mourning that GG bit the dust)
Would be nice to see the potential of carbon (lighter weights, engineered flex etc.) materialize; 32lbs for a trail bike is not the future we were...
Would be nice to see the potential of carbon (lighter weights, engineered flex etc.) materialize; 32lbs for a trail bike is not the future we were promised...
Would be nice to see the potential of carbon (lighter weights, engineered flex etc.) materialize; 32lbs for a trail bike is not the future we were...
Would be nice to see the potential of carbon (lighter weights, engineered flex etc.) materialize; 32lbs for a trail bike is not the future we were promised...
Engineered flex encompasses a lot more than flex pivots my dude.
Ya, with how powerful engineered carbon layup can be, with directional flex it allows, I'm shocked it isn't used more. Go ride a steel bike like Starling, and while not a perfect bike, on loose, natural, and/or off camber turns, the traction is amazing (only issue for me is that they are too flexy for burlier riders, or for longer travel bikes with long AtC forks, as seen on Neko's frames; he loved the comfort and grip of his steel triangle, but too flexy for WC racing). Carbon can give you the best of both worlds.
But back to the topic of next-gen manufacturing- Its frustrating seeing bikes (like the GG) reuse parts across models and frame sizes. I get it, for cost reasons its necessary, but innovation in manufacturing could allow for more custom bikes in the future, like Robot/Atherton. The old Privateer 141 shared the same tubesets as the longer travel original, so its going to be too heavy and too stiff for a shorter travel sibling. The same with sharing tubes & molds across sizes. Yes, there are bean pole tall guys on XLs, but its pretty reliable that larger sizes are going to have heavier riders. Taller riders also benefit from longer chainstays, and while moving the main pivot back on larger sizes is a cool trick to allow the reuse of a rear mold across sizes, you still end up with a rear triangle either overbuilt for lighter riders or underbuilt for heavier ones. Imagine if manufacturing technology progressed to the point where it was cost effective to do custom molds for each part for each size for each model, with the carbon fibers being tuned to provide lateral compliance like a steel frame, but in the appropriate amount for each size.
Man its kind of sad that this is the current era of mountain biking tech and innovation. Colors, small measurements, and the same tread pattern repeated...
Man its kind of sad that this is the current era of mountain biking tech and innovation. Colors, small measurements, and the same tread pattern repeated on tires. I miss the 2012-2017 era. Where enduro was just beginning and 29ers on big bikes were becoming a thing. Pros doing sometimes absurd builds… oh and cheaper bikes. Good times.
Don't be sad. I struggle to wrap my head around inflation too. Sometimes I find it helpful to recalibrate like this:
Adjusted for inflation the MSRP of a 2012 Sworks Stumpjumper FSR would be $2,494.63 more than the MSRP of a 2024 Sworks Stumpjumper FSR.
Adjusted for inflation the MSRP of the most affordable 2012 FSR would be $748.51 more than the MSRP of their most affordable 2024 full suspension.
i.e. prices have actually fallen, over 20%; while bikes have certainly improved, significantly.
There are still big innovations like what I'm doing, or Lal, Trust, or ebikes; and there were always less flashy innovations like improvements to tread patterns. Less flashy doesn't mean without value though, tires these days are much improved since a decade ago.
Man its kind of sad that this is the current era of mountain biking tech and innovation. Colors, small measurements, and the same tread pattern repeated...
Man its kind of sad that this is the current era of mountain biking tech and innovation. Colors, small measurements, and the same tread pattern repeated on tires. I miss the 2012-2017 era. Where enduro was just beginning and 29ers on big bikes were becoming a thing. Pros doing sometimes absurd builds… oh and cheaper bikes. Good times.
Couldn't agree more. In 2014 I bought into the hype and sold my 26" for an Enduro 29er, only for it to have a 67.5 degree...
Couldn't agree more. In 2014 I bought into the hype and sold my 26" for an Enduro 29er, only for it to have a 67.5 degree HTA and ride like an XC bike on the downhill. I OTB'ed for the first month more than the previous 3 years until I adjusted my technique.
Fast forward a few years, and by 2019 it was hard to buy a bike that had crap geo, and now all bikes have the same geo haha. All suspension is pretty good, all brakes are pretty good, and all high end builds are neon-pastel frame colors so everyone can see from a helicopter how much you spent on your bike.
I feel like the next innovations aren't going to be in performance, per-se, but rather in manufacturing techniques (still mourning that GG bit the dust)
Man its kind of sad that this is the current era of mountain biking tech and innovation. Colors, small measurements, and the same tread pattern repeated...
Man its kind of sad that this is the current era of mountain biking tech and innovation. Colors, small measurements, and the same tread pattern repeated on tires. I miss the 2012-2017 era. Where enduro was just beginning and 29ers on big bikes were becoming a thing. Pros doing sometimes absurd builds… oh and cheaper bikes. Good times.
Couldn't agree more. In 2014 I bought into the hype and sold my 26" for an Enduro 29er, only for it to have a 67.5 degree...
Couldn't agree more. In 2014 I bought into the hype and sold my 26" for an Enduro 29er, only for it to have a 67.5 degree HTA and ride like an XC bike on the downhill. I OTB'ed for the first month more than the previous 3 years until I adjusted my technique.
Fast forward a few years, and by 2019 it was hard to buy a bike that had crap geo, and now all bikes have the same geo haha. All suspension is pretty good, all brakes are pretty good, and all high end builds are neon-pastel frame colors so everyone can see from a helicopter how much you spent on your bike.
I feel like the next innovations aren't going to be in performance, per-se, but rather in manufacturing techniques (still mourning that GG bit the dust)
Would be nice to see the potential of carbon (lighter weights, engineered flex etc.) materialize; 32lbs for a trail bike is not the future we were...
Would be nice to see the potential of carbon (lighter weights, engineered flex etc.) materialize; 32lbs for a trail bike is not the future we were promised...
Lowest hanging fruit. Fixing geometry is cheaper than engineering flex and seeing what works and what doesn't. But it's likely these smaller things will be the next development war.
After a torrent of development 10 years ago, we have a period of stability. Getting ready for the next torrent. In the field of same same manufacturers will have to find the new thing to stand out by.
@hamncheez2003 Bird used to have the same tubeset across all their full suspension bikes as well. It's just sound engineering and accounting in this world. You can't really do fully custom aluminium if that requires hydroforming. With carbon footprint it is possible to adapt - you can have a different layup in the same mold. But that is also expensive as it requires additional testing. Plus what about resale value? Integrated seatposts are a pain as you can't sell a bike to someone taller than you for example... You can still cut it, but with custom layup it is what it is. Though if you are catering to a market that doesn't need a new bike every year, that might not be as much of an issue. With geometries and technology not progressing as fast it's completely possible to have the same frame for over 5 years.
Fox released gold lowers in 2014 already and they don't look that good imho. Same reason behind the idea as white marzocchi forks - to make you buy new stuff.
Fox released gold lowers in 2014 already and they don't look that good imho. Same reason behind the idea as white marzocchi forks - to make...
Fox released gold lowers in 2014 already and they don't look that good imho. Same reason behind the idea as white marzocchi forks - to make you buy new stuff.
They’re a bicycle part manufacturer. Aren’t they always trying to do that..?
We may have hit a plateau in development.. At least until someone figures out something new in materials or design. 32in wheels are already being played with..
Bike weights... Yes, bikes are getting heavier.. But, riders are pushing them harder. People are riding 130mm bikes on stuff that 160mm bikes were considered the normal for only a few years ago..
Someone mentioned ebikes getting more development.. I'd say that's true on the motor and battery side.. That technology is developing at a way faster pace. It's just a matter of time before it comes to a price point that is feasible for the bike market. Batteries are gaining more energy density, so more power in a given amount of space..
Where is the next big step that gets us all excited?
We may have hit a plateau in development.. At least until someone figures out something new in materials or design. 32in wheels are already being played...
We may have hit a plateau in development.. At least until someone figures out something new in materials or design. 32in wheels are already being played with..
Bike weights... Yes, bikes are getting heavier.. But, riders are pushing them harder. People are riding 130mm bikes on stuff that 160mm bikes were considered the normal for only a few years ago..
Someone mentioned ebikes getting more development.. I'd say that's true on the motor and battery side.. That technology is developing at a way faster pace. It's just a matter of time before it comes to a price point that is feasible for the bike market. Batteries are gaining more energy density, so more power in a given amount of space..
Where is the next big step that gets us all excited?
apple vision ebike ride simulator. neurolink AXS brakes. jokes aside, I'd bet most of the development we'll see will be on the electronic side, but hoping that stimulates some rebound investment in the acoustic component and bike world
We may have hit a plateau in development.. At least until someone figures out something new in materials or design. 32in wheels are already being played...
We may have hit a plateau in development.. At least until someone figures out something new in materials or design. 32in wheels are already being played with..
Bike weights... Yes, bikes are getting heavier.. But, riders are pushing them harder. People are riding 130mm bikes on stuff that 160mm bikes were considered the normal for only a few years ago..
Someone mentioned ebikes getting more development.. I'd say that's true on the motor and battery side.. That technology is developing at a way faster pace. It's just a matter of time before it comes to a price point that is feasible for the bike market. Batteries are gaining more energy density, so more power in a given amount of space..
Where is the next big step that gets us all excited?
For ebikes there isn't infinite improvement in battery in motor technology at least with the current gen stuff. The main problem is now that the market is polarized into sluggish heavy full power ebikes which weigh 25 kg+ and light ebikes who lack the grunt. I'd like to see something like the orbea rise without the annoying motor rattle and a derestricted motor plus 500 Wh battery which should come in at around 18-20 kg. Then there is also the integrated gearbox trend but that will just make the bikes heavier.
We may have hit a plateau in development.. At least until someone figures out something new in materials or design. 32in wheels are already being played...
We may have hit a plateau in development.. At least until someone figures out something new in materials or design. 32in wheels are already being played with..
Bike weights... Yes, bikes are getting heavier.. But, riders are pushing them harder. People are riding 130mm bikes on stuff that 160mm bikes were considered the normal for only a few years ago..
Someone mentioned ebikes getting more development.. I'd say that's true on the motor and battery side.. That technology is developing at a way faster pace. It's just a matter of time before it comes to a price point that is feasible for the bike market. Batteries are gaining more energy density, so more power in a given amount of space..
Where is the next big step that gets us all excited?
We were riding stuff on hardtails and 130 bikes long ago. Kona Stinky, Norco VPS-1, RM Slayer/Pipeline, these were 130 bikes. the current Druid, Optic, Endorphin is just updated versions of those bikes. Dont get so hung up on mm's of travel, geo and intended use are more important.
Bike innovation has always been gradual, its all marginal gains, theyre are very few cataclysmic changes.
We are on the precipice of electronic active suspension, which is incredibly complex, and can "release" some of the design compromises that currently plague mountain bikes (between climbing efficiency and descending efficiency) I dont think we have yet to see a bike that is designed around Flight Attendant or LiveWire systems, just integration into existing platforms.
When a manufacturer takes the chance to design with FA in mind, you might very well have a bike that can do both better (climb/descend) but we all have a different version of better...
Man its kind of sad that this is the current era of mountain biking tech and innovation. Colors, small measurements, and the same tread pattern repeated on tires. I miss the 2012-2017 era. Where enduro was just beginning and 29ers on big bikes were becoming a thing. Pros doing sometimes absurd builds… oh and cheaper bikes. Good times.
Couldn't agree more. In 2014 I bought into the hype and sold my 26" for an Enduro 29er, only for it to have a 67.5 degree HTA and ride like an XC bike on the downhill. I OTB'ed for the first month more than the previous 3 years until I adjusted my technique.
Fast forward a few years, and by 2019 it was hard to buy a bike that had crap geo, and now all bikes have the same geo haha. All suspension is pretty good, all brakes are pretty good, and all high end builds are neon-pastel frame colors so everyone can see from a helicopter how much you spent on your bike.
I feel like the next innovations aren't going to be in performance, per-se, but rather in manufacturing techniques (still mourning that GG bit the dust)
Would be nice to see the potential of carbon (lighter weights, engineered flex etc.) materialize; 32lbs for a trail bike is not the future we were promised...
Lets also get rid of orange helmets, terrible trend. /s
Band do it too much. Enough with the “flex pivot” bs.
I thought you guys all liked orange stuff because of Trump.
Or just buy a different colour/brand
Engineered flex encompasses a lot more than flex pivots my dude.
Ya, with how powerful engineered carbon layup can be, with directional flex it allows, I'm shocked it isn't used more. Go ride a steel bike like Starling, and while not a perfect bike, on loose, natural, and/or off camber turns, the traction is amazing (only issue for me is that they are too flexy for burlier riders, or for longer travel bikes with long AtC forks, as seen on Neko's frames; he loved the comfort and grip of his steel triangle, but too flexy for WC racing). Carbon can give you the best of both worlds.
But back to the topic of next-gen manufacturing- Its frustrating seeing bikes (like the GG) reuse parts across models and frame sizes. I get it, for cost reasons its necessary, but innovation in manufacturing could allow for more custom bikes in the future, like Robot/Atherton. The old Privateer 141 shared the same tubesets as the longer travel original, so its going to be too heavy and too stiff for a shorter travel sibling. The same with sharing tubes & molds across sizes. Yes, there are bean pole tall guys on XLs, but its pretty reliable that larger sizes are going to have heavier riders. Taller riders also benefit from longer chainstays, and while moving the main pivot back on larger sizes is a cool trick to allow the reuse of a rear mold across sizes, you still end up with a rear triangle either overbuilt for lighter riders or underbuilt for heavier ones. Imagine if manufacturing technology progressed to the point where it was cost effective to do custom molds for each part for each size for each model, with the carbon fibers being tuned to provide lateral compliance like a steel frame, but in the appropriate amount for each size.
Don't be sad. I struggle to wrap my head around inflation too. Sometimes I find it helpful to recalibrate like this:
Adjusted for inflation the MSRP of a 2012 Sworks Stumpjumper FSR would be $2,494.63 more than the MSRP of a 2024 Sworks Stumpjumper FSR.
Adjusted for inflation the MSRP of the most affordable 2012 FSR would be $748.51 more than the MSRP of their most affordable 2024 full suspension.
i.e. prices have actually fallen, over 20%; while bikes have certainly improved, significantly.
There are still big innovations like what I'm doing, or Lal, Trust, or ebikes; and there were always less flashy innovations like improvements to tread patterns. Less flashy doesn't mean without value though, tires these days are much improved since a decade ago.
Not if you bike where hunting is allowed.
then again nothing new, we know about the new dampers
Soon.
Gold lowers coming for 38 and 40 as well…
innovations will happen in the ebike sector now
I am personally offended!
Lowest hanging fruit. Fixing geometry is cheaper than engineering flex and seeing what works and what doesn't. But it's likely these smaller things will be the next development war.
After a torrent of development 10 years ago, we have a period of stability. Getting ready for the next torrent. In the field of same same manufacturers will have to find the new thing to stand out by.
@hamncheez2003 Bird used to have the same tubeset across all their full suspension bikes as well. It's just sound engineering and accounting in this world. You can't really do fully custom aluminium if that requires hydroforming. With carbon footprint it is possible to adapt - you can have a different layup in the same mold. But that is also expensive as it requires additional testing. Plus what about resale value? Integrated seatposts are a pain as you can't sell a bike to someone taller than you for example... You can still cut it, but with custom layup it is what it is. Though if you are catering to a market that doesn't need a new bike every year, that might not be as much of an issue. With geometries and technology not progressing as fast it's completely possible to have the same frame for over 5 years.
Did anyone catch the YT in the Ochain press release? It had a similar layout as an Izzo but with an X2 and a 38. Potato phone is struggling to post a pic but here is the link https://m.pinkbike.com/news/ochain-components-a-whole-new-range.html
I just got sent the pic by a friend who doesn’t know anything about it. Anyone have ideas what Fox will do with their new Grip X2 damper?
Fox released gold lowers in 2014 already and they don't look that good imho. Same reason behind the idea as white marzocchi forks - to make you buy new stuff.
Speaking of sliding links algorithm popped this up in my feed.
Its from December but I don’t remember seeing before
They’re a bicycle part manufacturer. Aren’t they always trying to do that..?
Looks like an over-suspension'd Izzo, frame details are exactly an Izzo, down to the chainstay protection. Cool but strange build.
Endu-country?
Down-uro?
We may have hit a plateau in development.. At least until someone figures out something new in materials or design. 32in wheels are already being played with..
Bike weights... Yes, bikes are getting heavier.. But, riders are pushing them harder. People are riding 130mm bikes on stuff that 160mm bikes were considered the normal for only a few years ago..
Someone mentioned ebikes getting more development.. I'd say that's true on the motor and battery side.. That technology is developing at a way faster pace. It's just a matter of time before it comes to a price point that is feasible for the bike market. Batteries are gaining more energy density, so more power in a given amount of space..
Where is the next big step that gets us all excited?
apple vision ebike ride simulator. neurolink AXS brakes. jokes aside, I'd bet most of the development we'll see will be on the electronic side, but hoping that stimulates some rebound investment in the acoustic component and bike world
Aww jeez. So we've got acoustic components as well as bikes now? I'm off to find some clouds to shout at.
For ebikes there isn't infinite improvement in battery in motor technology at least with the current gen stuff. The main problem is now that the market is polarized into sluggish heavy full power ebikes which weigh 25 kg+ and light ebikes who lack the grunt. I'd like to see something like the orbea rise without the annoying motor rattle and a derestricted motor plus 500 Wh battery which should come in at around 18-20 kg. Then there is also the integrated gearbox trend but that will just make the bikes heavier.
We were riding stuff on hardtails and 130 bikes long ago. Kona Stinky, Norco VPS-1, RM Slayer/Pipeline, these were 130 bikes. the current Druid, Optic, Endorphin is just updated versions of those bikes. Dont get so hung up on mm's of travel, geo and intended use are more important.
Bike innovation has always been gradual, its all marginal gains, theyre are very few cataclysmic changes.
We are on the precipice of electronic active suspension, which is incredibly complex, and can "release" some of the design compromises that currently plague mountain bikes (between climbing efficiency and descending efficiency) I dont think we have yet to see a bike that is designed around Flight Attendant or LiveWire systems, just integration into existing platforms.
When a manufacturer takes the chance to design with FA in mind, you might very well have a bike that can do both better (climb/descend) but we all have a different version of better...
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